Syracuse Closes Exhibition Play With Victory


rochcuse44

Well-known member
Thoughts on the game: I thought the game was sloppy and team looked a bit flat. Shooting was not good. I saw them shoot much better at the exhibition in Rochester. Maliq and Symir probably played the best. Benny has to be better and do more for us. Judah hasn’t hit his stride yet and Chris can shoot better than he has shown. Edwards is still a bit off with his timing, but should be good this year. Hope to see some improvement against Lehigh.
 

MassaCusetts

Well-known member
Thoughts on the game: I thought the game was sloppy and team looked a bit flat. Shooting was not good. I saw them shoot much better at the exhibition in Rochester. Maliq and Symir probably played the best. Benny has to be better and do more for us. Judah hasn’t hit his stride yet and Chris can shoot better than he has shown. Edwards is still a bit off with his timing, but should be good this year. Hope to see some improvement against Lehigh.
I agree Maliq and Symir were bright spots. That was good to see. I like Brown long term; I think his ability to impact in ACC games will vary at this point, but hopefully in a year or two he’s a solid 4. Edwards does concern me with his foul rate. There’s no question of what he can do/contribute….the fouls just scare me because it’s a big drop off after him (which is fair given you’re talking about a potential all-ACC kid). I think Taylor is very solid and composed; I’m not sure he’s gonna make a high percentage of perimeter shots this year but I actually think he starts sooner than later.
 

djorange1989

Well-known member
That’s a really generous recap. But I guess the Titanic was a cruise too.
agreed, they looked fine for the first 15 minutes and then simply terrible for the last 25. not going to freak out over an exhibition game but no question they looked very poor for the majority of the game. Against a team who lost to St John's by 41 last weekend
 

ThePearl

Well-known member
I was very disappointed last night, particularly with Judah. He simply has not played like a point guard at all. We've always liked scoring point guards, but right now Judah plays like the only difference between a point and a two is the point is the guy who brings the ball up the court. I am frankly bewildered. He's a smart player who's been on campus since July. Boeheim said a couple weeks ago he understands the position. But he rarely looks to get others good shots. He might've looked more to make plays for others at the two at Oak Hill than he's done at SU so far. Right now he's our fourth best point guard. Copeland had more assists than Judah in 2/3 the minutes and from the three.

Boeheim does not like to lose and if we start taking losses then either Joe and Judah are going to be switched or Symir will start, with Judah as sixth man. The situation is made worse because Judah's not hitting his shots, the same shots he made at a high percentage last season in the NIBC against better defenders than he faced last night. 5 turnovers, 4 points on 2-10, and 3 assists is unsustainable.

Bell is another guy who isn't shooting it like he's capable and that's the only reason he's in there. I think it won't be too long before Taylor is the starter. He won't hurt us in any area. He needs to look for his shot a little more. Neither Benny nor Chris have a strong feel for the game. Taylor and Maliq do. Benny's floor game is much better than last year, but he needs to start taking most of his shots near the basket instead of mostly midrange with a three thrown in occasionally. Maliq could probably take those same jumpers Benny does and hit them as well as Benny, but he plays to his strengths and lets the outside shooters do the outside shooting.

Jesse did not look sharp. I thought Maliq and Hima made a nice defensive duo off the bench for a stretch. Carey did a couple nice things and a couple poor things. I was surprised to see in the boxscore Symir took five threes, making two. He only took two two pointers. He needs to play more to his strengths. Neither defense of ours looks especially good. Would not be surprised if we eventually become almost exclusively zone.

A huge problem is rebounding. We only outrebounded a small D2 team by 2, giving up 20 offensive rebounds. And that was playing mostly man so the zone can't be blamed. We would get slaughtered by an ACC team by 20+ rebounds. And we would've lost to an average ACC team last night by 20-30 points. I don't know anything about Lehigh but they're probably a big step up as an opponent. We have to get much better in a hurry or we'll be losing games that count to quad three teams and our NCAA chances will be over before the ACC season begins.
 

jekelish

Well-known member
RE: Judah not playing like a point guard last night, I think it's clear, we do not have an actual point guard on the roster. And no, Quadir is not a point guard. He's a small forward who handles and passes pretty well, a la Todd Burgan.
 

MassaCusetts

Well-known member
I was very disappointed last night, particularly with Judah. He simply has not played like a point guard at all. We've always liked scoring point guards, but right now Judah plays like the only difference between a point and a two is the point is the guy who brings the ball up the court. I am frankly bewildered. He's a smart player who's been on campus since July. Boeheim said a couple weeks ago he understands the position. But he rarely looks to get others good shots. He might've looked more to make plays for others at the two at Oak Hill than he's done at SU so far. Right now he's our fourth best point guard. Copeland had more assists than Judah in 2/3 the minutes and from the three.

Boeheim does not like to lose and if we start taking losses then either Joe and Judah are going to be switched or Symir will start, with Judah as sixth man. The situation is made worse because Judah's not hitting his shots, the same shots he made at a high percentage last season in the NIBC against better defenders than he faced last night. 5 turnovers, 4 points on 2-10, and 3 assists is unsustainable.

Bell is another guy who isn't shooting it like he's capable and that's the only reason he's in there. I think it won't be too long before Taylor is the starter. He won't hurt us in any area. He needs to look for his shot a little more. Neither Benny nor Chris have a strong feel for the game. Taylor and Maliq do. Benny's floor game is much better than last year, but he needs to start taking most of his shots near the basket instead of mostly midrange with a three thrown in occasionally. Maliq could probably take those same jumpers Benny does and hit them as well as Benny, but he plays to his strengths and lets the outside shooters do the outside shooting.

Jesse did not look sharp. I thought Maliq and Hima made a nice defensive duo off the bench for a stretch. Carey did a couple nice things and a couple poor things. I was surprised to see in the boxscore Symir took five threes, making two. He only took two two pointers. He needs to play more to his strengths. Neither defense of ours looks especially good. Would not be surprised if we eventually become almost exclusively zone.

A huge problem is rebounding. We only outrebounded a small D2 team by 2, giving up 20 offensive rebounds. And that was playing mostly man so the zone can't be blamed. We would get slaughtered by an ACC team by 20+ rebounds. And we would've lost to an average ACC team last night by 20-30 points. I don't know anything about Lehigh but they're probably a big step up as an opponent. We have to get much better in a hurry or we'll be losing games that count to quad three teams and our NCAA chances will be over before the ACC season begins.
Symir took good 3s…if he’s gonna refuse those looks he hurts us. I think he plays more in the regular season right away.
 

ThePearl

Well-known member
RE: Judah not playing like a point guard last night, I think it's clear, we do not have an actual point guard on the roster. And no, Quadir is not a point guard. He's a small forward who handles and passes pretty well, a la Todd Burgan.
Disagree. Symir's a point guard, it's the only position he's cut out for. Copeland's played point guard his entire life, even if his style isn't always appealing and we'll have to see if it's right for college. I wouldn't want him at the point this season but maybe in the future. He passes much better than Burgan did and better than some of our past point guards. To me, Copeland doesn't have the shot to play the wing right now. He can be good there in stretches but it would be learning an entirely new position with different responsibilities than he's ever done. We're so lacking in shooters it's hard to put two forwards on the floor who the opponent will gladly watch shoot threes. And Quadir likely won't rebound and won't be a shot blocker. That's why I've always liked Taylor there. He doesn't have the weaknesses of Bell or Copeland. He has a good feel for the game without any big weaknesses, and he's capable of being a good wing shooter alongside Joe this season. Bell is capable of being a shooter too but so far he's not doing it and he has other weaknesses that overshadow his shooting even when it's good.
 

ThePearl

Well-known member
Symir took good 3s…if he’s gonna refuse those looks he hurts us. I think he plays more in the regular season right away.
But 5 of Symir's 7 shots were threes. That's not his main game, it should just complement his penetration to keep defenses honest. He should be going to the basket more, like the second half of last season. He'll get assists off penetration, not by shooting threes. Joe and Symir both took 7 field goal attempts and Symir actually shot more threes than Joe. And Joe is putting the ball on the floor more and drawing fouls.
 

MassaCusetts

Well-known member
I was very disappointed last night, particularly with Judah. He simply has not played like a point guard at all. We've always liked scoring point guards, but right now Judah plays like the only difference between a point and a two is the point is the guy who brings the ball up the court. I am frankly bewildered. He's a smart player who's been on campus since July. Boeheim said a couple weeks ago he understands the position. But he rarely looks to get others good shots. He might've looked more to make plays for others at the two at Oak Hill than he's done at SU so far. Right now he's our fourth best point guard. Copeland had more assists than Judah in 2/3 the minutes and from the three.

Boeheim does not like to lose and if we start taking losses then either Joe and Judah are going to be switched or Symir will start, with Judah as sixth man. The situation is made worse because Judah's not hitting his shots, the same shots he made at a high percentage last season in the NIBC against better defenders than he faced last night. 5 turnovers, 4 points on 2-10, and 3 assists is unsustainable.

Bell is another guy who isn't shooting it like he's capable and that's the only reason he's in there. I think it won't be too long before Taylor is the starter. He won't hurt us in any area. He needs to look for his shot a little more. Neither Benny nor Chris have a strong feel for the game. Taylor and Maliq do. Benny's floor game is much better than last year, but he needs to start taking most of his shots near the basket instead of mostly midrange with a three thrown in occasionally. Maliq could probably take those same jumpers Benny does and hit them as well as Benny, but he plays to his strengths and lets the outside shooters do the outside shooting.

Jesse did not look sharp. I thought Maliq and Hima made a nice defensive duo off the bench for a stretch. Carey did a couple nice things and a couple poor things. I was surprised to see in the boxscore Symir took five threes, making two. He only took two two pointers. He needs to play more to his strengths. Neither defense of ours looks especially good. Would not be surprised if we eventually become almost exclusively zone.

A huge problem is rebounding. We only outrebounded a small D2 team by 2, giving up 20 offensive rebounds. And that was playing mostly man so the zone can't be blamed. We would get slaughtered by an ACC team by 20+ rebounds. And we would've lost to an average ACC team last night by 20-30 points. I don't know anything about Lehigh but they're probably a big step up as an opponent. We have to get much better in a hurry or we'll be losing games that count to quad three teams and our NCAA chances will be over before the ACC season begins.
Symir took good 3s…if he’s gonna refuse those looks he hurts us. I think he plays more in the regular season right away
 

MassaCusetts

Well-known member
But 5 of Symir's 7 shots were threes. That's not his main game, it should just complement his penetration to keep defenses honest. He should be going to the basket more, like the second half of last season. He'll get assists off penetration, not by shooting threes. Joe and Symir both took 7 field goal attempts and Symir actually shot more threes than Joe. And Joe is putting the ball on the floor more and drawing fouls.
Simply put….which of those looks would he have been better off refusing? The answer is an easy “no”. It doesn’t work to just say “he took x number of shots from y place and that’s inherently wrong”. A point guard has to make the right play at the right time, and sometimes that’s taking wide open threes, sometimes it’s the simple pass, some times it’s taking it to the hoop, etc. Of course he should look for chances to attack the hoop because he IS more proficient at that. However, just blanket statements driving it into the pain can just gum everything up, be forced, etc. He made good decisions last night. That’s the same way Copeland is NOT a point guard. He is getting labeled as a great passer when the truth is that he’s a “creative” passer. He looks FAR too often for the assist rather than that simple. There’s a time and place for both, and right now he struggles of when each is right. He’s gotta learn that part of the game (and that’s easier said than done).
 

ThePearl

Well-known member
Simply put….which of those looks would he have been better off refusing? The answer is an easy “no”. It doesn’t work to just say “he took x number of shots from y place and that’s inherently wrong”. A point guard has to make the right play at the right time, and sometimes that’s taking wide open threes, sometimes it’s the simple pass, some times it’s taking it to the hoop, etc. Of course he should look for chances to attack the hoop because he IS more proficient at that. However, just blanket statements driving it into the pain can just gum everything up, be forced, etc. He made good decisions last night. That’s the same way Copeland is NOT a point guard. He is getting labeled as a great passer when the truth is that he’s a “creative” passer. He looks FAR too often for the assist rather than that simple. There’s a time and place for both, and right now he struggles of when each is right. He’s gotta learn that part of the game (and that’s easier said than done).
I doubt there is any time this season when as we’re bringing the ball upcourt anyone will be thinking we need to get Symir a three point shot. That’s not the shot we’re trying to get, and he took five in just sixteen minutes. Maybe he really surprises and actually shoots them well consistently. But if Symir is taking five threes every sixteen minutes and Joe is taking two every twenty-four minutes then we’re really in trouble. We’re supposed to be running the offense to get the shots we want to take, not to get the shots our opponents want us to take.
 

MassaCusetts

Well-known member
I doubt there is any time this season when as we’re bringing the ball upcourt anyone will be thinking we need to get Symir a three point shot. That’s not the shot we’re trying to get, and he took five in just sixteen minutes. Maybe he really surprises and actually shoots them well consistently. But if Symir is taking five threes every sixteen minutes and Joe is taking two every twenty-four minutes then we’re really in trouble. We’re supposed to be running the offense to get the shots we want to take, not to get the shots our opponents want us to take.
You’re missing the point entirely. You’re running an offense to get good shots. If he’s afraid of shooting good shots, the downstream effect is that the defense clogs everything up. They’re not running something to get him shots; they simply need him to be a threat so that when he gets the ball, guys will come out on him, giving him the ability to penetrate, have lanes for other guys, can get the ball to Edwards, etc. Those were good shots, and he made a good percentage of them. This one is really pretty cut and dry.
 

GregCuse

Member
You’re missing the point entirely. You’re running an offense to get good shots. If he’s afraid of shooting good shots, the downstream effect is that the defense clogs everything up. They’re not running something to get him shots; they simply need him to be a threat so that when he gets the ball, guys will come out on him, giving him the ability to penetrate, have lanes for other guys, can get the ball to Edwards, etc. Those were good shots, and he made a good percentage of them. This one is really pretty cut and dry.
well done
 
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